AFF, let's have a chat

I don't know if this topic has been talked about on this site. Social justice and minorities' discourses reach this platform slower than others, but somebody gotta say something about this so here I am: Stop with your izing bull.

Lemme be real with all of you for a second--most of the representation non-heteroual cisgendered relationships and people get on this site is horrible (and when I say non-het, I mean homoual/gay, since, apparently, this is the only minority included in LGTBQIA. Oh, and don't forget cisgendered!) and something has got to change.

I am part of the community and have never tried to hide it. So, from my point of view, and from others in the community let me start this discourse by saying that cishet women writing about strictly cisgendered gay male couples especially in a ual way and only about them makes me uncomfortable in the same way cishet men strictly writing about cisgendered gay female couples does. You write about us but you are not doing it for us--you are almost always doing it from a heteroual cisgendered persepective for a heteroual cisgendered audience with a heteroual cisgendered narrative, using us as props and nothing more. Do us all a favour and don't use the excuse of  being an ally to defend yourself as long as you only write about cisgendered male characters who are either strictly gay because at this point, no representation is better than bad representation. 

If you were truly an ally, you would also write about all those other minorities included in LTBGQIA as well, but instead, you only write about cisgendered m/m ships and that's an issue. There's also the fact that most of you supports us as long us we are socially considered attractive, but that's a different topic for another day.

What I am getting to is that your pwps are not for us. They are for you to get off on them. Cisgendered gay couples are turned into izes to arouse you and honestly, I can't exactly see why you, a cishet person would write a about a cisgendered gay couple. It feels odd. If feels strange, because I am sure you have yet to get rid of your heteroual narrative.

Don't even get me started on the stereotypes. I have lost count on how many stories I have stumbled upon that fed into the harmful stereotypes surrounding ual minorities. I am not saying some people don't fit into them, because some do, and there's nothing wrong with that, but your stereotypes take those traits to the extreme, turning them into a caricature. These stereotypes are literally killing us.

What I am mainly trying to say is that before you write a ual scene between cisgendered gay people you should ask yourself the following questions:

  • Is it relevant to the story
  • Is it for me? Is it to get off? Is it for the actual community?
  • Why am I only writing about cisgendered male couples???? 

 

There's a lot more that can and should be said on this topic, but for now this should suffice. Remember that the internet is your best friend and that you should listen to the voices in the communities you decide to write about. 

 

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kagamiwa #1
ha i totally agree with you, i stopped reading m/m a loooong time ago because it all just felt very self-indulgent and honestly really really creepy.
that being said, fanfiction is totally self-serving and unless you are a big published author you're always going to be writing for yourself (people who say they write for the readers is just bull lbr). you have to remember that in the context of aff nobody cares if they're representing a certain community. nobody cares if they're representing anything really, everyone just wants to read about their favourite idols getting it on with their other idols (or as does happen, themselves).
i'd say just turn a blind eye. people are going to write what they want to write and if it's stereotypical then well... that just shows how ignorant/creepy they are. if you want to see better representation then like janie suggested, you could write your own m/m or f/f fics to set a better example.
janie6789 #2
I think I understand where you're coming from, but at the same time, I can't agree with you.
We all have social issues that we think are important -- for you, I guess, it's the LGBTQ community. But here's the thing -- you can't expect everyone to hold this issue to the same importance as you, and you certainly have no right to 1) tell people what to care about, and 2) to tell them what to write. As the person who wants to advocate for this cause, the onus should be on you to write these stories, not on the authors that you read from, especially since authors may not be familiar with that world.
I think racism is an important social justice issue, but I could never fault anyone for not writing about it. It's not up to me what they write.
DeviLaugh #3
Hey, let's not shame people's es.

People get off on these fanfics, so they are going to continue writing and reading them. End of story. This has been the tale since the beginning of time. People have had a and was made, whether in writing, pictures, or videos. You can't tell people that because their doesn't mean anything, they can't write it.

Basically, the feeling I got from this is that you're tired of seeing your community used and written about by people outside the community. News flash, you don't have to be something to write about it. Yeah, a lot of writers should do better research so they don't write every gay man as uber masculine or super feminine, or whatever stereotype they make their characters. To completely say that "cisgendered heteroual" [females] should not write about M/M is to say that you are only allowed to write about people who fit in your demographic. That is to say that all non-Asians on AFF should just stop writing Asian fanfics because they don't understand Asian culture and are just stereotyping the characters. All females should never write about male characters, straight or not, all males should not write about females, etc. That's not how writing works. We get to write about what we want to write about. If someone's writing is harmful, you can educate them, but otherwise let them get off on it in peace.

Lastly, there are plenty of people from the community who add to the terrible pwp cesspool. They often write the kinkiest because they have the biggest fantasies. If you're expecting writing that means something, you have to look somewhere else. Find actual published works instead of this amateur hour stuff on aff.
nikatsu #4
I agree, more or less, with Hae_You. As much as it's the author's responsibility to warn their readers of content, it is also the reader's responsibility to accept what content the writer is willing to provide in his or her works. Most readers and writers here are on the early stages of developing their own prose, so of course, important points and aspects will be missed whether you intend to or not.

Personally I don't see why you should work yourself up too much about it. It really isn't up to you what writers are willing to provide their readers. If you don't like it, then just close the tab and leave it.

Neutrality is bad. And yeah maybe I don't get it much because I'm a het person only interested in writing het, but I'm not stupid or unaware either. I have my preferences. Lemme stick to em if I want. I'm not hurting anyone nor do I intend to do so.
Hae_You #5
I mean, I'm part of the community too, not just an ally, and I hate to be the middleman here, but people are gonna write what they're gonna write. I'm not saying that what you typed isn't wrong, but you're not gonna stop people. I, for one, being the biual person that I am, have a really hard time reading heteroual stories, and I enjoy homoual m/m stories. Because that's my preference. Hell, I've even written only m/m stories because that is what feels natural to me.

Anyway, I hate to break it to you, but if you don't like the stories, don't read them. I personally don't understand why you're getting so worked up about something that isn't going to change with just you and like four other people.

I do commend you, though, for saying your opinion.
mistressdean #6
Oh my god! Someone finally said it!
Writers point out that fanfics are for fantasies, but sometimes, it's just wrong to glorify or ualize. Regarding m/m and mpregs, yes, I don't read them because they're strictly aimed at a heteroual audience. I do not have the time or patience for this.
And what I find funny is that there are quite many readers and authors who do not acknowledge and Yuri as lgbtq.
Solbee #7
Thank you for writing this. This basically counts for all pwp and people should label it as pwp so if it is, so people are warned ahead. Coincidentally I just featured this in my AFF writers guide too at point 4 in this chapter 'to plot or not to plot' http://www.asianfanfics.com/story/view/1136246/2 where I warn them on the usage of pwp and how to warn people ahead. I think you might appreciate this chapter too. I'll make a specific chapter on and pwp as well later on, because some people on this website are doing it WRONG.
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